Comments on: Tax with Nectar cards? http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/tax_with_nectar_cards/ What do we want from Internet-age government? Wouldn't it be better if... Wed, 14 May 2014 08:35:11 +0000 hourly 1 By: William Heath http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/tax_with_nectar_cards/comment-page-1/#comment-51 Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:08:22 +0000 http://tax_with_nectar_cards#comment-51 Dead right – it opens all these issues.

For this brainstorm (given new focus on 4 Nov deadline) let’s focus on what the e-enablement in govt should offer, eg access to information, more interactive consultative processes, the possiblity of a degree of hypothecation in taxes.

Let’s also nail e-voting, ie state exactly what our requirement is if we’re to be happy with it.

And how we want to support and have access to our MPs. FaxyourMP and Theyworkforyou are very cool and well executed – are they part of an ideal end point or do we want more I wonder?

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By: sil http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/tax_with_nectar_cards/comment-page-1/#comment-50 Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:07:04 +0000 http://tax_with_nectar_cards#comment-50 On unofficial referenda: that depends on what me unticking “fund the military” on my tax return actually means. Does it mean:
1. Take the bit of my tax that’s used for discretionary purposes and use it on the stuff that I ticked, or
2. Here is my vote on what the government should spend tax money on.
If 2, then every tax return is a referendum. If 1, then it’s merely my choice; if then everyone votes against the military then we don’t have a military. This is not necessarily a good thing: as Jason says, this is “direct democracy” (which is entirely different from having lots of referenda), and it means that the government has no power to make people do things even though they don’t want to, like pay for a national health service.

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By: Jason Kitcat http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/tax_with_nectar_cards/comment-page-1/#comment-49 Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:54:25 +0000 http://tax_with_nectar_cards#comment-49 I would certainly support using e-gov to let people opt out of paying for our military.

But we need to be careful that such a system doesn’t end up being a direct democracy through the back door. Because if most issues became optionals through this proposed tax system then effectively we’d be having lots of referenda.

Which opens up a big discussion on what role would representatives play in such a system, how would voters get properly educated on the issues and how could we avoid manipulation of the results?

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By: sil http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/tax_with_nectar_cards/comment-page-1/#comment-48 Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:25:55 +0000 http://tax_with_nectar_cards#comment-48 William,

Thanks for the response. I didn’t quite appreciate the goal of the site, which is frankly an admirable one. That being the case, this level of automated calculation and application could apply to way more than simply your tax bill. Imagine if all benefits were equally handled this way; all the benefits to which you are entitled are automatically paid into your bank account, or into a Post Office account for those without bank accounts (since one must visit the Post Office to collect benefits anyway). It could even be set up such that only those benefits to which you are entitled and for which you have registered are paid, which neatly covers both the DIY trend and the automation ideal.

Stuart Langridge (I forget that I shouldn’t just sign my initials, sometimes)

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By: William http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/tax_with_nectar_cards/comment-page-1/#comment-47 Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:05:58 +0000 http://tax_with_nectar_cards#comment-47 The database of taxpayers is there. If it were connected details of every aspect of what we earn, as I think it is in Sweden and other countries, it would have to be extremely well protected (which begs the question).

Sil, I agree that something like this would be against a present trend (of ever more complex DIY goverment). That’s what we’re trying to do here – envision what it is we really want, regardless of the obstacles and the forces dragging us in the wrong directions.

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By: sil http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/tax_with_nectar_cards/comment-page-1/#comment-46 Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:09:55 +0000 http://tax_with_nectar_cards#comment-46 I don’t want to, you know, rubbish what sounds like a really good use of technology to make everyone’s lives a lot easier and more pleasant and so on, but I see the really serious problem in the proposal as centring around “from our highly confidential and well-protected database”. Whence came this database? How much extra scrutiny and form-filling would we have to subject ourselves to in order that it were produced? Perhaps this database already exists, in which case I can’t see why we’re not doing this now, because it’s a neat idea.
The cynic in me also says that there has been a shift from the government informing us to which allowances we are entitled to it being our responsibility to work it out for ourselves. I genuinely can’t see a reason for this other than that some people will not realise that they are entitled to an allowance and hence will not reduce their tax bill as much as they could, thus retiring a small bit of the national debt. This proposal would require a shift back to the government working it out for us and sending it for approval, which is against that trend.

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